1 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:29,439 --> 00:00:25,579 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:33,710 --> 00:00:29,449 episode number 234 for the 13th of april 4 00:00:35,750 --> 00:00:33,720 2013 nothin it's a it's a Saturday so I 5 00:00:39,350 --> 00:00:35,760 must be in Manchester Richard Saunders 6 00:00:43,220 --> 00:00:39,360 coming to you from QED question explore 7 00:00:47,420 --> 00:00:43,230 discover here in Manchester and well 8 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:47,430 what an an international skeptic zone I 9 00:00:53,780 --> 00:00:50,370 have for you this week and then kick off 10 00:00:55,670 --> 00:00:53,790 our little skeptical trip in Norway I 11 00:00:57,980 --> 00:00:55,680 had a wonderful time in Norway folks 12 00:01:01,370 --> 00:00:57,990 said was what a what a beautiful place 13 00:01:03,410 --> 00:01:01,380 no is well Oslo anyway I really didn't 14 00:01:05,570 --> 00:01:03,420 get outside of Oslo but it's just 15 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:05,580 stunning and we're going to kick off 16 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:08,150 with an interview with a Norwegian 17 00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:10,950 podcaster and sort of active skeptic 18 00:01:18,260 --> 00:01:15,000 Leisha Camden now she also appears on 19 00:01:21,399 --> 00:01:18,270 the Norwegian podcast pinch of salt what 20 00:01:23,570 --> 00:01:21,409 I her views on skepticism and Norwegian 21 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:23,580 society very interesting interview 22 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:24,900 coming up at the top of the show and I 23 00:01:32,780 --> 00:01:28,050 must must must thank absolutely thank 24 00:01:37,250 --> 00:01:32,790 Jurgen Bachmann in Oslo who took myself 25 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:37,260 and a group of skeptics around the 26 00:01:45,770 --> 00:01:41,130 Viking ship Museum a personal guided 27 00:01:47,780 --> 00:01:45,780 tour which was simply stunning the time 28 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:47,790 flew by when we learnt about all the 29 00:01:52,250 --> 00:01:50,010 artifacts and saw the giant of Viking 30 00:01:54,350 --> 00:01:52,260 ships and the stories and some of the 31 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:54,360 mystery so a big THANK YOU yogen you 32 00:01:59,570 --> 00:01:56,970 were a wonderful wonderful host and I 33 00:02:02,180 --> 00:01:59,580 really very much appreciate it and folks 34 00:02:04,310 --> 00:02:02,190 if you ever in Oslo you must put that on 35 00:02:05,750 --> 00:02:04,320 your list of things to see well worth it 36 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:05,760 and a general thank you to the wonderful 37 00:02:11,809 --> 00:02:08,610 people martin kristen in oslo for 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:11,819 looking after me after that it's a quick 39 00:02:17,269 --> 00:02:14,730 clip in an aeroplane to Dublin Dublin 40 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:17,279 Ireland where I was the guest of the 41 00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:19,110 Irish skeptics and I spoke 42 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:21,510 sort of an impromptu skeptics meeting 43 00:02:25,490 --> 00:02:23,310 there which was a great great deal of 44 00:02:27,380 --> 00:02:25,500 fun thank you to Finola Murphy for 45 00:02:30,650 --> 00:02:27,390 looking after me in fact I have a quick 46 00:02:34,670 --> 00:02:30,660 chat too Finola halfway through the 47 00:02:36,970 --> 00:02:34,680 episode today and also after we after we 48 00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:36,980 had our talk after I gave my talk we all 49 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:40,080 prepared to a lovely Irish pub and had a 50 00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:43,380 mess Pegasus folding about to imagine 51 00:02:50,090 --> 00:02:46,470 and some interesting characters in the 52 00:02:52,790 --> 00:02:50,100 pub some young men suddenly decided to 53 00:02:54,650 --> 00:02:52,800 strike up some songs I'm not sure why 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:54,660 but they were very loud mmm you'll hear 55 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:56,370 it pretty soon after that report from 56 00:03:02,000 --> 00:02:58,890 Ireland and again wow what a wonderful 57 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:02,010 place dublin is yes it was cold yes it 58 00:03:05,930 --> 00:03:03,570 was wet but I didn't care it's full of 59 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:05,940 statues Dublin is full of statues 60 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:08,130 interesting statues with interesting 61 00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:10,170 names like the Stiletto in the ghetto in 62 00:03:13,490 --> 00:03:11,910 the tart with the cart I think you'll 63 00:03:15,740 --> 00:03:13,500 have to google that folks but then it's 64 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:15,750 another plane trip from Dublin to hear 65 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:19,050 to Manchester where I am catch up with 66 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:21,570 dr. Reggie who's also a guest here at 67 00:03:27,050 --> 00:03:25,230 QED dr. Richie and John Carney and 68 00:03:29,509 --> 00:03:27,060 myself drove up to what they call the 69 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:29,519 Lake District here and parted about 70 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:31,350 there and fed some geese no it's 71 00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:33,690 exciting stuff that's coming up followed 72 00:03:37,820 --> 00:03:35,940 by chat with some lovely people here QED 73 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:37,830 and I'm going to get lots of interviews 74 00:03:42,979 --> 00:03:40,530 before this weekend is that I hope and a 75 00:03:45,140 --> 00:03:42,989 little bit of the opening ceremony and 76 00:03:46,820 --> 00:03:45,150 after that it's a weakened science with 77 00:03:51,650 --> 00:03:46,830 dr. Paul Willis from the Royal 78 00:03:54,350 --> 00:03:51,660 Institution of Australia www r-ia us dot 79 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:54,360 org dot a you and what a popular segment 80 00:04:00,110 --> 00:03:56,730 a week in science is really interesting 81 00:04:01,970 --> 00:04:00,120 stuff and to wrap up the show let's go 82 00:04:03,890 --> 00:04:01,980 to what country oh I don't know let's go 83 00:04:05,990 --> 00:04:03,900 to the United States let's visit our 84 00:04:08,330 --> 00:04:06,000 friend Travis Roy our reporter a 85 00:04:10,070 --> 00:04:08,340 reporter on the east coast of the United 86 00:04:12,590 --> 00:04:10,080 States where he and his friends get 87 00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:12,600 together for a think tank yes it's a 88 00:04:16,159 --> 00:04:13,920 think tank on the other side of the 89 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:16,169 world thanks Travis thanks for sending 90 00:04:20,420 --> 00:04:18,810 me that and Travis Roy and his friends 91 00:04:22,690 --> 00:04:20,430 in the think tank they're up in New 92 00:04:26,450 --> 00:04:22,700 England they're going to be discussing 93 00:04:29,570 --> 00:04:26,460 various recent skeptical conferences 94 00:04:31,339 --> 00:04:29,580 like Nexus and their opinion on Tam as 95 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:31,349 well also they chat about conspiracy 96 00:04:35,939 --> 00:04:32,409 theories 97 00:04:37,949 --> 00:04:35,949 and popcorn an interesting and different 98 00:04:40,829 --> 00:04:37,959 think tank coming up in this week's show 99 00:04:44,129 --> 00:04:40,839 well it's time for me to run out of my 100 00:04:47,359 --> 00:04:44,139 hotel room run to the to the lift go 101 00:04:50,820 --> 00:04:47,369 down to level three level three find 102 00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:50,830 find if there are any noms about mmm 103 00:04:54,359 --> 00:04:52,360 maybe I can bump into somebody who can 104 00:04:56,489 --> 00:04:54,369 offer me a nom who knows while I'm doing 105 00:04:58,979 --> 00:04:56,499 that well I'm doing that I hope you 106 00:05:19,330 --> 00:04:58,989 enjoyed this truly international episode 107 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:22,250 norway the land i dream of in fact it's 108 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:24,570 not a dream it's a reality i'm still in 109 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:27,210 norway having a wonderful time and i'm 110 00:05:34,340 --> 00:05:32,070 talking with misha come from the now on 111 00:05:36,590 --> 00:05:34,350 hiatus a norwegian procaster south 112 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:36,600 creeper a pinch of salt a pinch of salt 113 00:05:42,110 --> 00:05:38,970 yes I've heard of your podcast I've 114 00:05:43,909 --> 00:05:42,120 heard of your podcast now I you're very 115 00:05:46,180 --> 00:05:43,919 nice to me now you interviewed me for 116 00:05:49,070 --> 00:05:46,190 your youtube channel which was very 117 00:05:50,510 --> 00:05:49,080 flattering now I'm going to interview 118 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:50,520 you I'm gonna ask you sort of the same 119 00:05:54,350 --> 00:05:51,930 sort of questions and you are obviously 120 00:05:56,140 --> 00:05:54,360 a keen and interested skeptic why are 121 00:06:01,040 --> 00:05:56,150 you a keen and interested skeptic 122 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:01,050 because I basically I am in the skeptics 123 00:06:05,390 --> 00:06:02,490 moment because there is so much 124 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:05,400 stupidity and I get so annoyed and 125 00:06:11,150 --> 00:06:07,530 sometimes I just have to say something 126 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:11,160 but no I was more or less raised as a 127 00:06:16,820 --> 00:06:13,770 skeptic my parents are atheists and they 128 00:06:20,690 --> 00:06:16,830 their idea for raising me was that in 129 00:06:23,330 --> 00:06:20,700 the big questions you know what happens 130 00:06:24,650 --> 00:06:23,340 when we die why it's there life on other 131 00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:24,660 planets you know things like that they 132 00:06:29,930 --> 00:06:26,910 would explain that some people believe 133 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:29,940 this and other people believe that and I 134 00:06:35,450 --> 00:06:31,530 would have to actually ask them what do 135 00:06:38,350 --> 00:06:35,460 you think mommy hmm to get their opinion 136 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:38,360 so I was kind of always been used to 137 00:06:43,010 --> 00:06:40,289 seeing things for more than one side 138 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:43,020 because I feel that I've been raised to 139 00:06:46,100 --> 00:06:44,400 be very open-minded because my parents 140 00:06:48,590 --> 00:06:46,110 really really have not pushed anything 141 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:48,600 on me but of explaining our differing 142 00:06:51,950 --> 00:06:50,310 opinions some people believe that God 143 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:51,960 created the world other people believe 144 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:53,910 that it evolved and then when I asked 145 00:06:59,360 --> 00:06:55,650 they have said well I think that it 146 00:07:01,880 --> 00:06:59,370 evolved you like yeah so I just sort of 147 00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:01,890 always been thinking this way but in 148 00:07:06,140 --> 00:07:04,800 recent years I think it is more more 149 00:07:08,180 --> 00:07:06,150 important with activism because 150 00:07:13,070 --> 00:07:08,190 certainly in this country we see a 151 00:07:14,750 --> 00:07:13,080 growing tendency away from their normal 152 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:14,760 skepticism I mean I consider myself 153 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:18,090 something on activists but in everyday 154 00:07:20,690 --> 00:07:19,950 life people should be skeptical but 155 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:20,700 we're sort of 156 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:23,690 leaving that behind a bit in our way and 157 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:26,730 it's interesting because we are a very 158 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:29,370 secular society yes but in the sort of 159 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:32,610 gap that has risen up we're getting a 160 00:07:39,260 --> 00:07:36,450 lot more sort of new-age things I see 161 00:07:41,390 --> 00:07:39,270 that the other world really yeah you 162 00:07:43,460 --> 00:07:41,400 know spiritualism yes parts of it but 163 00:07:45,020 --> 00:07:43,470 also alternative medicine yeah which is 164 00:07:46,550 --> 00:07:45,030 very big in Norway partly of course 165 00:07:49,370 --> 00:07:46,560 because we have the money to spend and 166 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:49,380 we're spending so much money on it we're 167 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:52,370 really seeing a lot of dangerous things 168 00:07:58,700 --> 00:07:57,330 yes you said to me about homeopathy and 169 00:08:03,170 --> 00:07:58,710 other alternative medicine you know 170 00:08:05,090 --> 00:08:03,180 cancer cures cancer care facing the same 171 00:08:07,420 --> 00:08:05,100 to a problem I guess we are in Australia 172 00:08:10,370 --> 00:08:07,430 where you have people's promoting 173 00:08:12,110 --> 00:08:10,380 nonsense but saying this will cure you 174 00:08:14,330 --> 00:08:12,120 can don't go to the doctor you know 175 00:08:16,970 --> 00:08:14,340 don't have radio treatment radiation 176 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:16,980 treatment chemotherapy try this black 177 00:08:22,100 --> 00:08:20,850 sludge exactly and in this country we 178 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:22,110 have rules and regulations for 179 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:25,530 everything and that has sort of left the 180 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:27,570 field kind of open for a lot of people 181 00:08:31,340 --> 00:08:29,820 who want to fill that gap because there 182 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:31,350 aren't that many restrictions strangely 183 00:08:35,210 --> 00:08:33,030 on petitioners of at alternative 184 00:08:36,590 --> 00:08:35,220 medicine whereas on doctors there are a 185 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:36,600 lot of restrictions isn't that 186 00:08:40,910 --> 00:08:38,610 interesting yeah yeah we have we had 187 00:08:43,790 --> 00:08:40,920 something that was called the Kwok 188 00:08:47,390 --> 00:08:43,800 paragraph yeah which basically was very 189 00:08:50,300 --> 00:08:47,400 crux yeah but that was removed and there 190 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:50,310 is some legislation which now is more 191 00:08:55,790 --> 00:08:52,290 geared towards the marketing side of it 192 00:08:58,310 --> 00:08:55,800 saying that you are not allowed to sell 193 00:09:03,950 --> 00:08:58,320 something under false premises I you 194 00:09:06,380 --> 00:09:03,960 cannot sell something saying these seeds 195 00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:06,390 can cure cancer whatever you can say 196 00:09:10,370 --> 00:09:08,520 they're healthy but you can't make 197 00:09:11,870 --> 00:09:10,380 specific make specific health claims 198 00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:11,880 yeah unless they're backed up yes but 199 00:09:16,490 --> 00:09:13,920 the problem is people do it all the time 200 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:16,500 and almost nothing is done right um for 201 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:18,450 lack of resources or lack of interest I 202 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:20,610 don't really know but very little it's 203 00:09:24,770 --> 00:09:22,560 done it's interesting I mean you're 204 00:09:26,330 --> 00:09:24,780 you're telling me stuff I hear and I 205 00:09:28,310 --> 00:09:26,340 know from Australia there's a lot of 206 00:09:30,650 --> 00:09:28,320 people selling a lot of crazy stuff and 207 00:09:32,329 --> 00:09:30,660 nothing's we're getting there slowly but 208 00:09:35,210 --> 00:09:32,339 by and large you know it's it's 209 00:09:37,579 --> 00:09:35,220 at the moment I'm seeing Norway going 210 00:09:38,869 --> 00:09:37,589 into the wrong direction and not just 211 00:09:42,350 --> 00:09:38,879 with alternative medicine with with all 212 00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:42,360 kinds of whoo we have a princess you may 213 00:09:45,499 --> 00:09:43,680 have heard about this to release an 214 00:09:48,650 --> 00:09:45,509 angel she can talk to the dead talk to 215 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:48,660 angels and yeah look over she has her 216 00:09:52,639 --> 00:09:50,430 freedom of speech and I understand that 217 00:09:53,989 --> 00:09:52,649 that life is very difficult and you need 218 00:09:57,439 --> 00:09:53,999 to find something to sort of fill it up 219 00:09:59,569 --> 00:09:57,449 with but she's legitimizing it because 220 00:10:03,069 --> 00:09:59,579 she is at the very top of our society 221 00:10:05,509 --> 00:10:03,079 yeah she's the king's daughter yeah and 222 00:10:08,540 --> 00:10:05,519 that legitimizes it and we've had 223 00:10:10,489 --> 00:10:08,550 several other incidents where for 224 00:10:13,269 --> 00:10:10,499 instance there is a very famous man in 225 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:13,279 Norway who is called utopia he's 226 00:10:18,319 --> 00:10:15,569 supposedly by his own allegation he's 227 00:10:21,499 --> 00:10:18,329 psychic he's a healer he's all kinds of 228 00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:21,509 things uh but he's quite old now yeah 229 00:10:27,170 --> 00:10:25,529 he's old he's in his 80s yeah and we had 230 00:10:30,049 --> 00:10:27,180 an incident for instance where the then 231 00:10:32,629 --> 00:10:30,059 minister of health claimed that this man 232 00:10:34,850 --> 00:10:32,639 had cured his son of colic over the 233 00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:34,860 phone yeah over the phone yes over the 234 00:10:39,199 --> 00:10:37,800 phone in a very obvious the situation 235 00:10:40,429 --> 00:10:39,209 was that the boy had been having 236 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:40,439 colleague for quite a while and they 237 00:10:43,189 --> 00:10:41,850 were desperate and they called the sky 238 00:10:46,249 --> 00:10:43,199 who healed the boy over the phone and he 239 00:10:48,259 --> 00:10:46,259 was cured but as we all know colic is 240 00:10:50,540 --> 00:10:48,269 self-limited condition it clears up in a 241 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:50,550 few weeks and when they were at their 242 00:10:54,199 --> 00:10:52,170 most desperate they called him so I 243 00:10:56,540 --> 00:10:54,209 don't think we need to be geniuses to 244 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:56,550 figure out that it just cleared up on 245 00:10:59,509 --> 00:10:57,689 its own and that would have happened 246 00:11:01,999 --> 00:10:59,519 regardless yeah but when the minister of 247 00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:02,009 health goes out and says that I totally 248 00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:05,220 believe that that's right yeah and a guy 249 00:11:09,079 --> 00:11:07,620 who is quite famous sees no no longer 250 00:11:11,299 --> 00:11:09,089 politician but he was at that time and 251 00:11:13,579 --> 00:11:11,309 it's also a medical doctor he said that 252 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:13,589 he and he's from up north and he knows 253 00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,529 prayers that can cure bleeding squint 254 00:11:21,980 --> 00:11:18,720 staunch bleeding and he's a medical 255 00:11:25,309 --> 00:11:21,990 doctor s'ok listeners can't see my face 256 00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:25,319 but my jaw is dropping yes you know so 257 00:11:30,049 --> 00:11:28,350 we're having things like that we're also 258 00:11:31,999 --> 00:11:30,059 in my opinion the norwegian school 259 00:11:33,739 --> 00:11:32,009 system really isn't that good and i 260 00:11:35,749 --> 00:11:33,749 don't think we're equipping young people 261 00:11:36,949 --> 00:11:35,759 with the tools that they need the mental 262 00:11:38,239 --> 00:11:36,959 tools to be able to sort this 263 00:11:40,939 --> 00:11:38,249 information and when it's coming from 264 00:11:42,740 --> 00:11:40,949 someone who is a member of parliament 265 00:11:44,059 --> 00:11:42,750 and a doctor and he's saying that he 266 00:11:46,079 --> 00:11:44,069 knows prayers that can start bleeding 267 00:11:47,519 --> 00:11:46,089 then you need 268 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:47,529 really be a serious skeptic should be 269 00:11:52,379 --> 00:11:50,050 able to what how did the media generally 270 00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:52,389 treat this sort of when these people 271 00:11:57,749 --> 00:11:55,120 make these statements far too leniently 272 00:11:59,850 --> 00:11:57,759 really far too leniently um this guy 273 00:12:03,569 --> 00:11:59,860 yash drove the heel old healer he gets 274 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:03,579 no critical press at all Wi-Fi because 275 00:12:07,860 --> 00:12:05,889 he's a beloved old carriage yes he looks 276 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,870 like this charming old grandfather yeah 277 00:12:13,889 --> 00:12:10,240 and he's old and he's not entirely well 278 00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:13,899 he doesn't heal himself yes no I guess 279 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:16,870 this powers just don't work that way but 280 00:12:22,889 --> 00:12:20,050 you know it's mean to be a critical of 281 00:12:24,929 --> 00:12:22,899 an Oregon you know I right but it's very 282 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:24,939 strange because he will say things like 283 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:27,970 he's he's never heard any money office 284 00:12:32,999 --> 00:12:30,569 activities at all but we all know that 285 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:33,009 not asking for money doesn't mean that 286 00:12:36,239 --> 00:12:34,600 he doesn't get money he doesn't charge 287 00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:36,249 anyone but he has gotten a lot of gifts 288 00:12:40,199 --> 00:12:37,120 and he's written several books 289 00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,209 biographies of himself and his deeds and 290 00:12:44,460 --> 00:12:42,639 he's heard a lot of money on that yeah a 291 00:12:48,299 --> 00:12:44,470 lot of money hundreds of thousands 292 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:48,309 probably millions and he's always saying 293 00:12:51,569 --> 00:12:50,050 things like I'm just a humble old man 294 00:12:54,210 --> 00:12:51,579 who wants to be left alone but he's 295 00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:54,220 published five autobiographies and the 296 00:12:57,689 --> 00:12:56,350 press doesn't even point that out you 297 00:12:59,669 --> 00:12:57,699 know if you want if you don't want 298 00:13:01,710 --> 00:12:59,679 publicity why do you keep writing books 299 00:13:03,660 --> 00:13:01,720 about yourself yeah and I must remind 300 00:13:05,129 --> 00:13:03,670 listeners that when you say millions of 301 00:13:09,239 --> 00:13:05,139 course you're talking about general 302 00:13:11,579 --> 00:13:09,249 region crowns yes which is some not know 303 00:13:13,739 --> 00:13:11,589 why don't billions of what the blood was 304 00:13:16,619 --> 00:13:13,749 listen to think of american dollars yeah 305 00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,629 i think that 10 million dollar is about 306 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:18,160 six crowns something up but still quite 307 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:20,230 a lot of money from one who claims to 308 00:13:24,030 --> 00:13:22,569 knock on any money and even that obvious 309 00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:24,040 is someone who publishes books about 310 00:13:29,549 --> 00:13:25,360 himself claims to not want publicity 311 00:13:31,379 --> 00:13:29,559 they don't even grab hold of that which 312 00:13:32,699 --> 00:13:31,389 you would imagine would be an 313 00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:32,709 interesting i mean it probably obvious 314 00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:35,920 to a lot of reporters but i think they 315 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:39,129 sell more by publishing what he has to 316 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:41,050 say as he says it than they would by 317 00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:42,730 being critical of this we don't lil man 318 00:13:48,749 --> 00:13:45,300 who is also a very religious man he's 319 00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:48,759 worked for the church so you know it's 320 00:13:54,030 --> 00:13:52,120 very yeah it's mean and of course the 321 00:13:57,210 --> 00:13:54,040 princess they have ridiculed her quite a 322 00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:57,220 bit but that's also they're supposed to 323 00:13:59,519 --> 00:13:58,720 be nice to the Royals because they can't 324 00:14:01,379 --> 00:13:59,529 really defend them 325 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:01,389 yes they're not really allowed to go out 326 00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:03,910 and say I guess there's a limit that if 327 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:05,199 one of the rules is saying something 328 00:14:11,129 --> 00:14:08,050 ridiculous there is a limited she has 329 00:14:12,509 --> 00:14:11,139 really been saying haha to ridiculous 330 00:14:18,749 --> 00:14:12,519 things and she has taken quite a lot of 331 00:14:21,179 --> 00:14:18,759 flock but not so much on the actual you 332 00:14:23,579 --> 00:14:21,189 might say scientific side of it because 333 00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:23,589 she has claimed to really have seen 334 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:25,480 angels to the point where they have left 335 00:14:31,230 --> 00:14:29,350 feathers behind literally so where are 336 00:14:33,299 --> 00:14:31,240 the feathers then you know let's have 337 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:33,309 the feather can we examine it and see is 338 00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:38,730 it angelic or avian you know so that 339 00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:41,769 criticism is more making fun of the 340 00:14:47,579 --> 00:14:44,649 rocco and that's not really criticism as 341 00:14:49,470 --> 00:14:47,589 such that's just pandering to the lowest 342 00:14:51,540 --> 00:14:49,480 common denominator we can all laugh at 343 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:51,550 the crazy princess yeah yeahs thinks she 344 00:14:54,989 --> 00:14:53,050 can talk to her horse well there's I 345 00:14:57,660 --> 00:14:54,999 mean and there's also the question of 346 00:14:59,549 --> 00:14:57,670 what what harm is being done now with 347 00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,559 the princess where you can say well it's 348 00:15:03,569 --> 00:15:01,839 probably not that much harm really but 349 00:15:05,460 --> 00:15:03,579 was with this old guy I would imagine 350 00:15:07,710 --> 00:15:05,470 there are people desperately who would 351 00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:07,720 call him or you know the worst case 352 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:09,519 situations people who reject real 353 00:15:13,530 --> 00:15:11,889 medicine because all yes that is a big 354 00:15:15,210 --> 00:15:13,540 danger that's the you know this guy can 355 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:15,220 heal me why would I take my pill yeah 356 00:15:20,999 --> 00:15:18,250 and we have also had practitioners 357 00:15:24,540 --> 00:15:21,009 square they have said for instance this 358 00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:24,550 German Rica cattleman who practices this 359 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:27,100 new German medicine he has been active 360 00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:30,250 in Norway and he peed feels thought or 361 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:34,569 believes that and modern medicine 362 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:38,410 against cancer is a Jewish conspiracy to 363 00:15:43,230 --> 00:15:40,930 kill people that it's the chemo and the 364 00:15:45,449 --> 00:15:43,240 radiation that kills you so people like 365 00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:45,459 that will actually say as you mentioned 366 00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:49,209 don't take yeah yeah as the modern 367 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:51,220 medicine because that is what's going to 368 00:15:54,929 --> 00:15:52,569 tell you it's interesting there's a lot 369 00:15:57,239 --> 00:15:54,939 of some of the anti-vaccination mob down 370 00:15:59,939 --> 00:15:57,249 in in Australia have the same line with 371 00:16:02,400 --> 00:15:59,949 chemotherapy yeah they say that doesn't 372 00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:02,410 work and you should drink fruit juice 373 00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:04,269 and breathe healthy air or take this 374 00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,040 black sludge and it's interesting that 375 00:16:09,749 --> 00:16:08,079 the same people who advocate do not take 376 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:09,759 vaccinations also say don't you know 377 00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:11,410 chemotherapy doesn't work it's this 378 00:16:15,370 --> 00:16:12,470 whole 379 00:16:16,780 --> 00:16:15,380 suspicion of Medicine but what do you 380 00:16:20,380 --> 00:16:16,790 see in those people is that and we have 381 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:20,390 anti-vaxxers here too yeah who I'm not 382 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:22,220 sure if you've had that and Australia 383 00:16:26,350 --> 00:16:24,170 but here there has been among the 384 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:26,360 extreme part of the anti-vaccination 385 00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:28,430 movement this idea that because 386 00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:29,870 Norwegian authorities they bought a lot 387 00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:32,300 of swine flu vaccines hmm and wanted to 388 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:34,180 inoculate everyone in the entire country 389 00:16:39,610 --> 00:16:37,910 and there was actually conspiracy but 390 00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:39,620 because there's a theory i should say of 391 00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:41,360 course was pretty among these people 392 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:44,420 that what they really wanted was to 393 00:16:49,810 --> 00:16:48,110 inoculate us with nanobots basically no 394 00:16:51,850 --> 00:16:49,820 no chips yeah I've heard things like 395 00:16:54,610 --> 00:16:51,860 this absolutely so they can keep track 396 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:54,620 of us people who think that the 397 00:16:59,950 --> 00:16:56,930 airplanes are dropping yes from the sky 398 00:17:03,700 --> 00:16:59,960 exactly the condensation trails yeah 399 00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:03,710 yeah yeah we've got and this is quite a 400 00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,360 controlled society there are lots of 401 00:17:10,030 --> 00:17:07,520 rules and regulations for everything and 402 00:17:12,790 --> 00:17:10,040 obviously our government wants to keep 403 00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:12,800 total tract of us in every possible way 404 00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:16,070 so don't you yeah exactly but it does 405 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:18,560 exist they're just keeping it under 406 00:17:22,450 --> 00:17:20,090 balls yeah and they're working with the 407 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:22,460 CIA or not you and I get out regular 408 00:17:25,570 --> 00:17:24,170 paycheck from them yes of quite live a 409 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:25,580 naughty and all that sort of stuff of 410 00:17:31,390 --> 00:17:28,210 course we do yeah my job is just a cover 411 00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:31,400 obviously the law in Norway doesn't 412 00:17:37,780 --> 00:17:34,370 really give the opportunities that he 413 00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:37,790 used to to prosecute people for you know 414 00:17:42,460 --> 00:17:40,070 quackery they can get around it now by 415 00:17:44,650 --> 00:17:42,470 not making those claims but there are a 416 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:44,660 lot of ways in which you can convey to 417 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:46,310 your audience that this my treatment 418 00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,010 cures councillors out see you absolutely 419 00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:50,960 and this is a khaki again the sort of 420 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:54,430 thing that we've we've come across or 421 00:17:59,920 --> 00:17:57,290 may assist we're though you know just 422 00:18:03,370 --> 00:17:59,930 weasel words we call them yeah it's very 423 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:03,380 sneaky and then people will believe it 424 00:18:08,350 --> 00:18:04,850 because again they don't have the tools 425 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:08,360 and our media is terrible and doesn't 426 00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:10,610 help at all they do they focus on what 427 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:13,310 sells there are some you know points of 428 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:17,450 light one of our co-founders at my 429 00:18:22,510 --> 00:18:20,930 podcast behmen he had a TV show he's 430 00:18:25,490 --> 00:18:22,520 working on the second series now I think 431 00:18:27,860 --> 00:18:25,500 and the first series was all about 432 00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:27,870 medicine and it got very good ratings 433 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:32,160 and sparked a serious debate but the 434 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:34,170 people in the debate were on either one 435 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:38,130 side or the other and the people who 436 00:18:42,110 --> 00:18:40,410 were on the other side it was pretty 437 00:18:44,570 --> 00:18:42,120 obvious that he could not hope to sway 438 00:18:45,980 --> 00:18:44,580 them you know it when he did except set 439 00:18:48,140 --> 00:18:45,990 on homeopathy of course all the 440 00:18:49,610 --> 00:18:48,150 arguments came out on psychics 441 00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:49,620 everything it was all the same and you 442 00:18:53,570 --> 00:18:51,720 could tell he wasn't reaching yeah any 443 00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,580 one of these people but hopefully he 444 00:18:59,630 --> 00:18:55,200 could reach the people on the fence and 445 00:19:01,790 --> 00:18:59,640 make them see that maybe things are not 446 00:19:05,090 --> 00:19:01,800 as these petitioners are telling us but 447 00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:05,100 and that RIM series was broadcast on our 448 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:08,550 big state-owned channel so everybody got 449 00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:09,810 the chance to see it on a lot of people 450 00:19:15,010 --> 00:19:11,790 did see it it had fantastic ratings and 451 00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:15,020 has been optioned for another season so 452 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:17,820 come good things are happening but yeah 453 00:19:22,220 --> 00:19:20,490 it is very good but it is relatively 454 00:19:24,050 --> 00:19:22,230 simplistic because it's made for popular 455 00:19:27,020 --> 00:19:24,060 audience and oh I know about you know 456 00:19:29,450 --> 00:19:27,030 yeah but it's very effective good and 457 00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:29,460 he's really good at communicating with 458 00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:31,940 audiences who tossed out for a living so 459 00:19:36,770 --> 00:19:34,830 you know there is an audience for a show 460 00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:36,780 like that which is a very good sign yeah 461 00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:39,180 but the question is do people when they 462 00:19:45,290 --> 00:19:41,400 go back to their everyday lives do they 463 00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:45,300 take that with them that's hard to say 464 00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:48,120 that's how it's the general mindset in 465 00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:50,100 this country is not heading in the right 466 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:52,110 direction I'm afraid and I think part of 467 00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,330 that is because nothing has been put in 468 00:19:59,420 --> 00:19:56,880 place to replace you know when religion 469 00:20:01,010 --> 00:19:59,430 has sort of been used out there is a 470 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:01,020 spirituality that will spring up to take 471 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:02,490 its place and some of that can be good 472 00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:05,490 you know meditation for instance yoga 473 00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:08,340 things like that but there are also 474 00:20:12,050 --> 00:20:10,320 unscrupulous people who see this as a 475 00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:12,060 great opportunity to make money it is 476 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:15,600 and that's where the dangerous that when 477 00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,410 you're not able to filter woo from hard 478 00:20:24,290 --> 00:20:22,260 fact that leaves the door open for a lot 479 00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:24,300 certainly the other stuff to come into 480 00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:26,910 well I am interested to hear all this 481 00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:28,500 because it's I can see so many 482 00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:30,150 similarities to what's happening in 483 00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:31,950 Australia and I suppose it's pretty 484 00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:33,750 generic moral lesson first world 485 00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:36,240 societies that we face a lot of the 486 00:20:39,379 --> 00:20:38,460 similar problems but I'm glad that 487 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:39,389 you're there 488 00:20:43,759 --> 00:20:41,369 then you're active in the friends to 489 00:20:46,009 --> 00:20:43,769 herein are low and the Norwegian 490 00:20:48,109 --> 00:20:46,019 skeptics um who have treated me so well 491 00:20:50,060 --> 00:20:48,119 and must say and what all that hot 492 00:20:51,859 --> 00:20:50,070 chocolate we just had what it was that 493 00:20:54,289 --> 00:20:51,869 place just around the corner it's a cafe 494 00:20:56,659 --> 00:20:54,299 Bristol I can recommend it best hot 495 00:20:58,399 --> 00:20:56,669 chocolate in town definitely really was 496 00:21:00,469 --> 00:20:58,409 it was fantastic so thank you for taking 497 00:21:03,769 --> 00:21:00,479 me there and spending some of the day 498 00:21:05,419 --> 00:21:03,779 with me at the Viking ship Museum what's 499 00:21:06,769 --> 00:21:05,429 that great it's a wonderful place on 500 00:21:09,579 --> 00:21:06,779 that's the only place in the entire 501 00:21:12,139 --> 00:21:09,589 world to see real Viking Age longships 502 00:21:16,699 --> 00:21:12,149 those two are the only two preserved 503 00:21:18,769 --> 00:21:16,709 which which amazes me that that's it I 504 00:21:20,779 --> 00:21:18,779 have seen the world's collection of 505 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:20,789 Viking ships it's seen all there is to 506 00:21:24,769 --> 00:21:23,129 see it's incredible folks come to Norway 507 00:21:46,750 --> 00:21:24,779 that's all actually thank you very much 508 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:50,300 hi yeah maudit oh yeah Kristen or evil 509 00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,810 tips advice on wash cliff they're all 510 00:21:55,070 --> 00:21:53,520 the skeptics own um skip the comedian 511 00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:55,080 more again if it's not can prob get 512 00:21:58,370 --> 00:21:56,790 upper bleph a podcast over and against 513 00:22:00,680 --> 00:21:58,380 kept sativa you like if I'm ever after 514 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:00,690 this man since ralph i skipped system 515 00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:03,210 loop or hypothesis the deep plane origin 516 00:22:06,530 --> 00:22:05,040 and calendar or escape disc after death 517 00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:06,540 or link you till i will escape this 518 00:22:09,170 --> 00:22:07,980 guild association escapes his blog 519 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:09,180 enough authority and lay over this 520 00:22:13,220 --> 00:22:10,890 guitar is heavy epilepsies ramazzotti 521 00:22:16,730 --> 00:22:13,230 keen on a starve yourself skips a stop 522 00:22:18,650 --> 00:22:16,740 mmm hello I'm moderate and I'm Kristin 523 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:18,660 and we want to let you know that there 524 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:20,370 are lots of Norwegian skeptics for you 525 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:22,530 to get to know their blogs and pub meats 526 00:22:26,090 --> 00:22:24,330 and a podcast and the Norwegian skeptics 527 00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:26,100 also do paranormal tests and consumer 528 00:22:30,260 --> 00:22:28,080 activism to find out more Google 529 00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:30,270 Norwegian skeptics or visit skep 530 00:22:44,210 --> 00:22:41,600 norway one day island the next in fact 531 00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:44,220 the same day I'm in Dublin Ireland my 532 00:22:49,550 --> 00:22:46,830 first visit Thailand and I'm walking 533 00:22:51,890 --> 00:22:49,560 around with vanilla Murphy hello hi are 534 00:22:54,350 --> 00:22:51,900 you I'm having a wonderful time as you 535 00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:54,360 can tell I'm smiling and giggling and 536 00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:56,400 we're in the middle of your favorite 537 00:22:59,930 --> 00:22:58,200 part my favorite park this is the IV 538 00:23:02,090 --> 00:22:59,940 gardens in the middle of dublin city 539 00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:02,100 centre and it's kind of a little secret 540 00:23:07,220 --> 00:23:04,620 garden if you don't know it's there it's 541 00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:07,230 hard to find oh just hold thousands of 542 00:23:12,650 --> 00:23:09,720 people I don't they have to get to 543 00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:12,660 Ireland first I do they do it's it's 544 00:23:18,110 --> 00:23:16,320 just wonderful now I'm here I'm very 545 00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:18,120 quick visit of course which is a pity 546 00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:20,070 I'd like to stay longer are we speaking 547 00:23:24,110 --> 00:23:22,590 to the local skeptics tomorrow night yes 548 00:23:25,910 --> 00:23:24,120 yes I'm looking forward to that very 549 00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:25,920 much yes or a week we were very excited 550 00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,720 when you you knew offered to pop over 551 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:30,240 and see us before going to QED just a 552 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:33,450 photo just a popular yeah yeah and so 553 00:23:38,740 --> 00:23:35,850 endlessness of course no you is the one 554 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:38,750 of the skipper course i'm skipper con tu 555 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:41,970 tu tu yes Rebecca skipper phone number 556 00:23:48,290 --> 00:23:46,650 one of us can pecan yeah the Irish 557 00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:48,300 podcast well let's continue walking 558 00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:52,950 through this wonderful parking I was 559 00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,540 just don't say we're all over there's a 560 00:23:58,580 --> 00:23:56,400 fellow just walk enough often others 561 00:23:59,720 --> 00:23:58,590 here a man with a little boy but apart 562 00:24:02,900 --> 00:23:59,730 from that you know we've got the whole 563 00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:02,910 park to ourselves I think you've taken 564 00:24:06,980 --> 00:24:04,980 me to a secret place well I love this 565 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:06,990 place because it is kind of secret and 566 00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,050 nobody really knows about it and it's a 567 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:12,480 little bit Wilder I mean I know it is 568 00:24:16,270 --> 00:24:14,130 still very well maintained its a little 569 00:24:18,980 --> 00:24:16,280 bit wilder than the other city parks and 570 00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,990 kind of an element of Faerie of it but 571 00:24:22,990 --> 00:24:20,640 you know what it is to I've just noticed 572 00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:23,000 that as we look around it sort of got 573 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:26,790 natural or much natural walls hasn't it 574 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:29,130 is like we're a little valley here yes 575 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:33,850 yeah well spotted that's why I like it 576 00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,490 yeah and and then at the moment all the 577 00:24:40,590 --> 00:24:38,320 waterfalls are switched off but during 578 00:24:42,450 --> 00:24:40,600 the summer the waterfalls are on and the 579 00:24:43,710 --> 00:24:42,460 Phantom's are on and we've just walked 580 00:24:46,289 --> 00:24:43,720 around the corner and there's a lovely 581 00:24:48,779 --> 00:24:46,299 fountain of is a statue of a range like 582 00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:48,789 yes but it's not the water's not going 583 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:49,840 there's another one over there on the 584 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:52,330 other side and there's a duck look at 585 00:24:59,010 --> 00:24:54,970 the dock waiting for the fun yeah let's 586 00:25:01,740 --> 00:24:59,020 be waiting a while everybody and and if 587 00:25:04,350 --> 00:25:01,750 you got in here yes ma'am around this 588 00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:04,360 tree yeah yeah oh yes it's like a little 589 00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:07,360 corridor of trees I little bit further 590 00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:09,340 down here there's a maze well it's not 591 00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:12,640 it's a labyrinth no amazed and then a 592 00:25:15,870 --> 00:25:14,320 little rose garden which is the 593 00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:15,880 labyrinth of the end of this yes oh we 594 00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:17,679 got to see that it's it's a classic lot 595 00:25:22,110 --> 00:25:20,080 like a labyrinth the style of the blue 596 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:22,120 hedge work isn't labyrinth see you don't 597 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:24,370 get lost cuz it's only about like knee 598 00:25:37,529 --> 00:25:28,510 height well i pled something I've got to 599 00:25:39,060 --> 00:25:37,539 see let's go okay hello skeptics own 600 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:39,070 fans and we're recording live from 601 00:25:44,990 --> 00:25:42,730 unreal irish pub in Dublin we really are 602 00:25:47,820 --> 00:25:45,000 hello familiar hello how are you I'm 603 00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:47,830 been doing so well we had a great time 604 00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:49,840 tonight I gave a talk and we've all been 605 00:25:54,750 --> 00:25:52,480 doing origami lessons in an Irish pub we 606 00:26:00,270 --> 00:25:54,760 have definitely and I made an art deco 607 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:00,280 big as unhappy biggest city there's a 608 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:02,049 story I have I'm sticking to it it looks 609 00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:03,970 like an art deco look it it's it's 610 00:26:09,210 --> 00:26:05,740 purple and orange so it's clearly 611 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:09,220 article ii and angled and everything see 612 00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:12,010 thank you can't see over the radio I 613 00:26:16,890 --> 00:26:14,590 nope you take above it and who do we 614 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:16,900 have here a day from Belfast skeptics 615 00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:19,809 you're fast skeptics ah now on Belfast 616 00:26:24,299 --> 00:26:22,390 FM we turn to the person lads easygoing 617 00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,309 and confidence skeptic seeks other 618 00:26:28,409 --> 00:26:26,559 critical thinkers for fun laughter and 619 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:28,419 good times must be willing to apply 620 00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:30,490 logic liberally and a good listener 621 00:26:34,529 --> 00:26:32,169 expect something new and interesting 622 00:26:36,419 --> 00:26:34,539 every month come on meet me in Belfast 623 00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:36,429 in Northern Ireland if this sounds like 624 00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:38,289 you check out my profile on bail for 625 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:42,270 skeptics calm music by kevin macleod 626 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:44,610 still active still going 627 00:26:49,310 --> 00:26:47,130 yes fill me in regular ya need a few 628 00:26:50,690 --> 00:26:49,320 more speakers / but it's always chill 629 00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:50,700 getting people over from England you 630 00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:52,049 know with all the flights and everything 631 00:26:57,169 --> 00:26:54,390 but yes we're going what's the URL for 632 00:26:59,419 --> 00:26:57,179 built the Belfast skeptics who Belfast 633 00:27:01,580 --> 00:26:59,429 skeptics comment I believe you will 634 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:01,590 leave as well see friends in high school 635 00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:03,660 well I was just wanted to make this 636 00:27:10,340 --> 00:27:06,240 recording thing because the atmosphere 637 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:10,350 in here you just can't be yes it's of 638 00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,690 what am I thought this isn't this like 639 00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:17,760 every pub as people bursting in the song 640 00:27:26,150 --> 00:27:24,540 no these are not good singers if you're 641 00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:26,160 gonna shine no sing you better be able 642 00:27:32,650 --> 00:27:29,220 to sing and they cannot sing Oaks come 643 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:32,660 to Ireland that's all I can say Faceman 644 00:27:43,159 --> 00:27:40,290 thank you good night hi this is Carrie 645 00:27:46,220 --> 00:27:43,169 papi i am ross Fletcher okay Ross hey 646 00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:46,230 we're from a podcast called oh no Ross 647 00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:49,020 and Carrie we find out what happens when 648 00:27:52,909 --> 00:27:50,820 you show up and ask questions we've hung 649 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:52,919 out with the Cabalists the Mormons we've 650 00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:55,290 gone and gotten ear candles gone to the 651 00:27:59,690 --> 00:27:58,049 Sikhs we show up so you don't have to so 652 00:28:01,580 --> 00:27:59,700 find out where we're going next we'll 653 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:01,590 even have special episodes where we have 654 00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,200 famous guests like Brian Dalton from mr. 655 00:28:08,299 --> 00:28:06,000 deity you heard that awesome theme music 656 00:28:12,020 --> 00:28:08,309 he wrote that you should come visit us 657 00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:12,030 at Oh No podcast.com or facebook.com 658 00:28:18,980 --> 00:28:14,820 slash on rack what the hell's honor a 659 00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:18,990 cross Oh in RAC oh oh no Ross and Carrie 660 00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:21,510 that's our show that's a smart come join 661 00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:32,190 us well from no way to to Dublin and now 662 00:28:36,919 --> 00:28:34,260 to the United Kingdom where in the lakes 663 00:28:39,980 --> 00:28:36,929 district I'm with dr. rachey dr. heu 664 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:39,990 have a new friend I have a very mean 665 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:42,450 goose that is bullying all the other 666 00:28:47,299 --> 00:28:44,610 geese so that it can eat my sort of 667 00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:47,309 biscuit et Quon flaky sort of thing yeah 668 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:50,110 now let's see if we can make this goose 669 00:28:54,780 --> 00:28:53,290 honk hahaha I really did Punk to 670 00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:54,790 drinking because another goose was 671 00:29:01,919 --> 00:28:57,760 having his noms hey let me feed another 672 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:01,929 case and they'll probably make you is it 673 00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:05,010 wandered off he's quite bossy isn't he 674 00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:08,620 see so what's beautiful sit there he 675 00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:11,640 goes beautiful scene here dr. hu were at 676 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:14,350 war I'm not even late windermere like 677 00:29:18,810 --> 00:29:17,110 here there's as you can hear there lots 678 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:18,820 of birds around which we're feeding and 679 00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:23,650 they're loving at your that's the sound 680 00:29:28,409 --> 00:29:25,900 of geese feeding out of dr. a cheese 681 00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:28,419 hand and there are boats and all sorts 682 00:29:31,230 --> 00:29:29,679 of things here and there's some snow on 683 00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:31,240 the mountains behind us but of course 684 00:29:40,260 --> 00:29:37,720 we're here in in the UK to get to to QED 685 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:40,270 can we do yes I know exciting and it 686 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:41,890 starts officially tonight with a sort of 687 00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:43,510 a meet and greet and then it gets into 688 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:46,150 full swing and you're giving a talk I'm 689 00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:48,370 giving a talk tomorrow and I'm on a 690 00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:50,320 panel as well an ult med panel tomorrow 691 00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:53,440 with I think I think Simon's seniors on 692 00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:55,990 my panel great not sure like I remember 693 00:30:01,770 --> 00:29:58,960 yeah anyway yeah so yeah kicking off 694 00:30:03,539 --> 00:30:01,780 tonight and um it's it's sold out really 695 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:03,549 early this year which is the first time 696 00:30:07,770 --> 00:30:06,010 it sold out so early actually so it's 697 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:07,780 going to be lots of really interesting 698 00:30:11,789 --> 00:30:09,850 people lots of fun stuff to talk about I 699 00:30:14,490 --> 00:30:11,799 was I certainly enjoyed my time here 700 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:14,500 last year at QED and I didn't expect to 701 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:16,090 be here this year but here I am and I'm 702 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:19,090 absolutely filled to be here and i hope 703 00:30:22,169 --> 00:30:20,650 to grab some snacks some great 704 00:30:24,030 --> 00:30:22,179 interviews for the skeptic zone over the 705 00:30:26,940 --> 00:30:24,040 next few days with people like Simon 706 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:26,950 Singh and yes yeah I'm definitely and 707 00:30:33,530 --> 00:30:29,650 Robin inks is going to be around as well 708 00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:33,540 and Andy Lewis from Quackenbush ah 709 00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:36,400 sidra's Rodriguez isms in rods really 710 00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:38,440 yes well a lot of our friends are here 711 00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,260 too you know I'm medtech and Chris 712 00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:43,360 Higgins who's just moved to London so it 713 00:30:46,650 --> 00:30:44,590 would be great to catch up with some 714 00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:46,660 friends as well he comes a goose again 715 00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:52,030 ah sounds correct if enjoying those 716 00:30:57,330 --> 00:30:54,940 gnomes isn't he really is alright well 717 00:30:59,790 --> 00:30:57,340 yes so I'm just setting the scene for 718 00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:59,800 our listeners that and of course in this 719 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:01,360 episode of the skeptics and it truly is 720 00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:02,490 an international 721 00:31:06,020 --> 00:31:04,710 episode with all these countries being 722 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:06,030 resonant or they guys want to fly across 723 00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:07,890 the water for meanie that was them 724 00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:09,360 anyway that's the loud one was it lets 725 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:10,980 just flying over that yeah past that 726 00:31:15,650 --> 00:31:14,250 boat alright so thank you listeners for 727 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:15,660 indulging us while we're feeding the 728 00:31:20,390 --> 00:31:18,090 ducks in there and the geese there they 729 00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:20,400 go and we'll get back to some more 730 00:31:33,650 --> 00:31:22,710 serious skeptic zone type topics in a 731 00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,660 moment the crowd of gathering it's day 732 00:31:37,070 --> 00:31:35,760 one of QED I'm sitting in the middle of 733 00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:37,080 the audience with a couple of old 734 00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:39,240 friends have spoken skeptics in the pub 735 00:31:42,919 --> 00:31:40,710 would you like to introduce yourself to 736 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:42,929 our listeners hello i am been making 737 00:31:48,049 --> 00:31:45,809 from edinburgh and this is i'm steve 738 00:31:50,810 --> 00:31:48,059 making his married to Baron so also from 739 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:50,820 edinburgh and you were visiting sydney 740 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:52,710 just last year and i interviewed you you 741 00:31:55,370 --> 00:31:53,910 gave her talking skeptics in the pub 742 00:32:00,200 --> 00:31:55,380 that your adventures looking into 743 00:32:03,650 --> 00:32:00,210 various woo woo yes the a to Zed of all 744 00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:03,660 the woo I had tried from acupuncture to 745 00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:05,820 Zen Buddhism that's that was a really 746 00:32:11,150 --> 00:32:09,750 interesting talk and yeah you both gave 747 00:32:12,919 --> 00:32:11,160 it I remember now you both stood up 748 00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:12,929 there and gave the talk that was really 749 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:15,809 great and here we are QED it's just the 750 00:32:20,060 --> 00:32:18,090 crowd of gathering I mean we haven't it 751 00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:20,070 hasn't officially started yet but I've 752 00:32:24,770 --> 00:32:22,950 noticed some people have been um what 753 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:24,780 they call celebrity spotting I saw 754 00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:26,370 Richard Dawkins earlier having a cup of 755 00:32:31,310 --> 00:32:29,190 tea so it was a Duke instincts team 756 00:32:32,990 --> 00:32:31,320 apparently so well I auto store 757 00:32:35,180 --> 00:32:33,000 something like that metaphorically he 758 00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:35,190 was having a capacity for a cup of tea 759 00:32:40,010 --> 00:32:37,710 and there is a dalek on the stage as 760 00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:40,020 well which is very very Alec was here 761 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:41,700 last year I remember yes there it is 762 00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:43,890 flashing away over there and what did 763 00:32:48,020 --> 00:32:45,390 you get in your goody bag in my goodie 764 00:32:50,180 --> 00:32:48,030 bag I've got some kill ed Rob do you 765 00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:50,190 have rocket Australia I think we do but 766 00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:52,020 it's not very common it's a big candy 767 00:32:56,299 --> 00:32:54,300 yeah it's like a long thin candy bar 768 00:32:58,490 --> 00:32:56,309 where it should have words that go down 769 00:33:00,300 --> 00:32:58,500 because Hugh ed going down the middle of 770 00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:00,310 it so that's Robin site 771 00:33:05,790 --> 00:33:03,640 and is there a pen I don't know I 772 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:05,800 haven't felt no yes yes there is an 773 00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:09,370 attender shoot syringe syringe pen lots 774 00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:11,320 of love big pharma so we have an anti 775 00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:15,760 big flower pen and and we have flyers 776 00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,220 advertising skeptics on the fringe well 777 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:20,080 why don't you tell us I tell about it 778 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:22,710 good skeptics on the fringe is a 779 00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:26,050 festival in Edinburgh we're very very 780 00:33:30,990 --> 00:33:28,870 fortunate in Edinburgh that we have the 781 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:31,000 largest international arts festival in 782 00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:34,690 the world every August and we do science 783 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:37,600 and reason and critical thinking as an 784 00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:40,330 alternative to all the arts and stand-up 785 00:33:45,390 --> 00:33:42,760 comedy ah very good when's that on 786 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:45,400 August August absolutely I only I could 787 00:33:49,620 --> 00:33:47,890 wangle a trip to edinboro August would 788 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:49,630 view that really would be wonderful 789 00:33:56,790 --> 00:33:52,810 actually we have 22 different talks on 790 00:33:59,640 --> 00:33:56,800 22 different days in august we do in one 791 00:34:02,610 --> 00:33:59,650 month 13 weeks we do what most skeptics 792 00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,620 in the pub is doing a year Wow and a 793 00:34:06,510 --> 00:34:04,720 busy time a very very busy time and then 794 00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:06,520 we collapse in September and go to 795 00:34:11,970 --> 00:34:09,520 Australia Matthew it i think managing 796 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:11,980 that to you that we cut that it's all 797 00:34:16,590 --> 00:34:14,890 free Oh fantastic so the donation on 798 00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:16,600 exit now let's give everybody that 799 00:34:25,470 --> 00:34:23,460 website which is WWF disco UK / fringe 800 00:34:27,810 --> 00:34:25,480 absolutely that's the sad do too well 801 00:34:29,970 --> 00:34:27,820 folks I'm really excited to be here in 802 00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:29,980 QD it's wonderful to that you're both 803 00:34:32,910 --> 00:34:31,390 here it's really nice to catch up with 804 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:32,920 you again and here's to a great 805 00:34:38,740 --> 00:34:34,810 conference excellent well thank you very 806 00:34:38,750 --> 00:35:08,380 Tilly 807 00:35:19,010 --> 00:35:13,390 my name is Brian Thompson welcome to qet 808 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:19,020 2013 is a 13 yeah I if you don't know 809 00:35:26,330 --> 00:35:23,010 who I am congratulations same boat as 810 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:26,340 everyone out I work for the James Randi 811 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,410 Educational Foundation you might have 812 00:35:37,130 --> 00:35:31,440 heard its little dwarf named James 813 00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:37,140 ringing I work for him uh also a 814 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:39,720 comedian I've been on I feel I Eddie's 815 00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:42,690 wonderful program incredulous two or 816 00:35:48,020 --> 00:35:58,910 do you 817 00:36:05,010 --> 00:36:01,770 the skeptic magazine the journal from 818 00:36:07,620 --> 00:36:05,020 Australian skeptics subscribe online the 819 00:36:12,530 --> 00:36:07,630 world's second oldest skeptical magazine 820 00:36:15,630 --> 00:36:12,540 visit w WC apx com au and click the 821 00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:15,640 publication's league you can also find 822 00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:20,020 their over 30 years on back issues free 823 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:23,230 to download the skeptic magazine from 824 00:36:38,970 --> 00:36:36,850 Australian skeptics welcome to a week in 825 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:38,980 science from our aisles this week 826 00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:41,850 dinosaur embryos healthier chocolate and 827 00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:50,310 talking baboons fossilized dinosaur 828 00:36:56,190 --> 00:36:53,350 embryos still inside their eggs have 829 00:36:58,110 --> 00:36:56,200 been found in China this rare fine sheds 830 00:37:00,840 --> 00:36:58,120 light on the early development of these 831 00:37:02,970 --> 00:37:00,850 prehistoric creatures the fossils belong 832 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:02,980 to a group called the sauropod amorphs 833 00:37:10,530 --> 00:37:07,450 and are between 190 and 197 million 834 00:37:13,290 --> 00:37:10,540 years old the oldest dinosaur embryos 835 00:37:15,570 --> 00:37:13,300 ever found detailed examination of the 836 00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:15,580 bones indicates that these dinosaurs 837 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:17,740 grew quickly and flex their muscles 838 00:37:23,790 --> 00:37:21,850 while still inside the egg fruit juice 839 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:23,800 infused chocolate could become a 840 00:37:28,350 --> 00:37:26,290 healthier alternative thanks to new 841 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:28,360 technology the technique allows 842 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:30,250 chocolates be made with fruit juice 843 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:33,910 vitamin C water or diet cola replacing 844 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:36,610 up to fifty percent of the fat the juice 845 00:37:40,590 --> 00:37:38,770 is in the form of microbubbles that 846 00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:40,600 helps the chocolate to retain the 847 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:44,110 velvety lush mouthfeel substituting 848 00:37:48,210 --> 00:37:46,090 fruit juice or diet cola will also 849 00:37:50,370 --> 00:37:48,220 reduce the overall sugar content of the 850 00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:50,380 chocolate while maintaining its healthy 851 00:37:56,490 --> 00:37:53,710 natural antioxidants and now for science 852 00:37:58,770 --> 00:37:56,500 headlines in 30 seconds an exciting 853 00:38:00,510 --> 00:37:58,780 archaeological Hall in South Africa has 854 00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:00,520 uncovered well-preserved relatives of 855 00:38:04,110 --> 00:38:02,710 humans over 2 million years old a 856 00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:04,120 nutrient in red 857 00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,180 rather than saturated fat or cholesterol 858 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:08,560 may be to blame for it's linked to 859 00:38:12,510 --> 00:38:10,930 cardiovascular disease climate change 860 00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:12,520 could cause bumpier transatlantic 861 00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:14,800 flights with modeling showing more 862 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:16,960 frequent and stronger winter turbulence 863 00:38:22,170 --> 00:38:20,290 by mid-century and sorry lads but it 864 00:38:24,990 --> 00:38:22,180 seems that size does matter after all 865 00:38:27,060 --> 00:38:25,000 with women rating computerized males is 866 00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:27,070 more attractive when they have larger 867 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:30,640 penises and finally for this week have 868 00:38:36,270 --> 00:38:33,730 baboons been overheard talking recently 869 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:36,280 while gelada baboons were heard to make 870 00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:38,650 vocalizations called wobbles while 871 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:40,870 performing a facial gesture known as 872 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:43,810 lip-smacking unlike other primate noises 873 00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:46,090 the synchronization of these facial 874 00:38:51,450 --> 00:38:48,420 expressions and vocalizations is 875 00:38:57,870 --> 00:38:51,460 structurally similar to speech so could 876 00:39:00,960 --> 00:38:57,880 this be a precursor to human speech 1111 877 00:39:05,610 --> 00:39:00,970 this strange behavior has not been seen 878 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:05,620 in the geladas closest relatives arias 879 00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:07,330 recently covered a controversial topic 880 00:39:13,500 --> 00:39:10,480 in science behind the headlines drugs in 881 00:39:15,690 --> 00:39:13,510 sport on the Arias website this week 882 00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:15,700 read a review of the event and see an 883 00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:18,190 exclusive interview with dr. Mario zoli 884 00:39:25,050 --> 00:39:20,590 chief medical officer with the Union 885 00:39:29,130 --> 00:39:25,060 Cycliste Internationale that's RI aus 886 00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:29,140 org a you that's been the highlights of 887 00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:31,510 another big week in science for more on 888 00:39:37,050 --> 00:39:33,760 these and other science news stories go 889 00:39:38,910 --> 00:39:37,060 to the rirs website are oils org a you 890 00:39:41,790 --> 00:39:38,920 where you can also sign up for 891 00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:41,800 notifications of future episodes you can 892 00:39:46,830 --> 00:39:43,600 join in the conversation on twitter 893 00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,840 using the hashtag weekend sigh i'm paul 894 00:39:56,430 --> 00:39:48,400 willis and on behalf of the our oils 895 00:40:01,299 --> 00:39:59,020 did you see that UFO sighting that made 896 00:40:03,010 --> 00:40:01,309 the news what did that latest study 897 00:40:05,410 --> 00:40:03,020 about alternative treatments really say 898 00:40:08,380 --> 00:40:05,420 is this photo making the rounds real or 899 00:40:10,270 --> 00:40:08,390 hoax duffle news is a unique website 900 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:10,280 featuring news about pseudoscience the 901 00:40:14,099 --> 00:40:12,410 paranormal anomalies and questionable 902 00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:14,109 claims framed with the skeptical view 903 00:40:18,809 --> 00:40:17,089 come visit doubtful newscom every day 904 00:40:22,539 --> 00:40:18,819 for news about cryptozoology 905 00:40:25,450 --> 00:40:22,549 conspiracies shams scams and more follow 906 00:40:27,010 --> 00:40:25,460 us on twitter at doubtful news critical 907 00:40:29,319 --> 00:40:27,020 thinking is essential in assessing 908 00:40:37,020 --> 00:40:29,329 today's news duffel news helps you 909 00:40:47,319 --> 00:40:40,420 join us now for drinking skeptically in 910 00:40:51,010 --> 00:40:47,329 the think tank first our first but our 911 00:40:57,279 --> 00:40:51,020 first one that are recording North 912 00:41:02,819 --> 00:40:57,289 American think tank yay small one we got 913 00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:02,829 out myself Travis got Steve and Andrew 914 00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:05,839 alright and we got an exciting one today 915 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:09,920 because Steve just got back from Nexus 916 00:41:15,549 --> 00:41:12,170 then that's right I think of us a little 917 00:41:18,130 --> 00:41:15,559 bit of a low down on Nexus well mexus 918 00:41:21,099 --> 00:41:18,140 was a great time this was my first time 919 00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:21,109 ever going to a nexus so I really didn't 920 00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:24,079 have a point of comparison for I was 921 00:41:29,890 --> 00:41:26,750 lucky the skeptics group from stack 922 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:29,900 exchange was kind enough to post me for 923 00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:32,450 this and they got me to go not only to 924 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:34,670 the actual conference but I got to go to 925 00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,210 the workshops the workshops were much 926 00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:41,359 smaller affairs than the for instance my 927 00:41:46,990 --> 00:41:43,160 only other complaint of comparison would 928 00:41:50,289 --> 00:41:47,000 be Tam but there were four workshops on 929 00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:50,299 the Friday before Nexus really started 930 00:41:57,279 --> 00:41:54,319 and it was a lot of fun to sit in a room 931 00:41:59,410 --> 00:41:57,289 with 15 other people and Steve novella 932 00:42:03,159 --> 00:41:59,420 and George Rob telling us how to make a 933 00:42:07,419 --> 00:42:03,169 podcast and you know things like that 934 00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:07,429 then you know that evening they had a 935 00:42:12,890 --> 00:42:10,319 thing called stimulus and response which 936 00:42:14,929 --> 00:42:12,900 was a lot of fun the first half of it 937 00:42:18,739 --> 00:42:14,939 was George Rob just kind of freestyling 938 00:42:22,999 --> 00:42:18,749 his music while some artist named paulo 939 00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:23,009 rob no relation interesting I know the 940 00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:26,400 made a painting are actually a series of 941 00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:28,169 paintings I just see some pictures of 942 00:42:35,269 --> 00:42:30,839 that yeah and they were it was really 943 00:42:39,439 --> 00:42:35,279 neat then afterwards Steven and Heather 944 00:42:42,439 --> 00:42:39,449 Berlin and a few other folks kind of 945 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:42,449 talked about you know what that whole 946 00:42:47,359 --> 00:42:44,249 experience was like and kind of the 947 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:47,369 neurology behind it then they got some 948 00:42:55,579 --> 00:42:53,130 improv comedians they dragged J novella 949 00:42:58,699 --> 00:42:55,589 up on stage and they just started asking 950 00:43:01,130 --> 00:42:58,709 him a bunch of questions and while all 951 00:43:05,959 --> 00:43:01,140 the improv comedians are standing around 952 00:43:10,159 --> 00:43:05,969 and after Jay had thoroughly exhausted 953 00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:10,169 his stream of consciousness they went 954 00:43:14,329 --> 00:43:11,880 ahead and did an improv act which was 955 00:43:17,089 --> 00:43:14,339 actually quite funny based on the things 956 00:43:19,249 --> 00:43:17,099 that Jay had said and then of course 957 00:43:23,959 --> 00:43:19,259 saturday and sunday was the actual day 958 00:43:27,709 --> 00:43:23,969 of the conference itself again never 959 00:43:29,630 --> 00:43:27,719 having been to nexus it seemed that they 960 00:43:32,929 --> 00:43:29,640 filled up the auditorium quite well and 961 00:43:36,979 --> 00:43:32,939 all the speakers were really really good 962 00:43:40,299 --> 00:43:36,989 I particularly enjoyed kind of the the 963 00:43:45,069 --> 00:43:40,309 arc that each of the presentations had 964 00:43:47,509 --> 00:43:45,079 you know we had a lot about cognitive 965 00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:47,519 sciences a lot about the development of 966 00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:51,359 morality moral arts throughout that and 967 00:43:58,099 --> 00:43:55,380 then even later on in the day we talked 968 00:44:00,140 --> 00:43:58,109 about storytelling and how that kind of 969 00:44:02,919 --> 00:44:00,150 resonates with things one of the things 970 00:44:06,979 --> 00:44:02,929 skeptic seems to have problems with is 971 00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:06,989 whenever we try to relate something in 972 00:44:13,249 --> 00:44:09,900 the skeptical field we use facts and 973 00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:13,259 figures because we have the data to back 974 00:44:17,509 --> 00:44:15,089 up our assertions 975 00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:17,519 those facts and figures well most people 976 00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:19,440 when they listen to something they don't 977 00:44:25,729 --> 00:44:23,400 hear that they hear the anecdotal story 978 00:44:28,549 --> 00:44:25,739 they hear the relatable thing things 979 00:44:32,329 --> 00:44:28,559 like that so that was a good teaching 980 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:32,339 point i think for skeptics which goes 981 00:44:37,789 --> 00:44:34,890 counter to you know the plural of 982 00:44:40,579 --> 00:44:37,799 anecdote is not data but if you can 983 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:40,589 perhaps couch the data in the form of an 984 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:44,249 anecdote to help the listener relate a 985 00:44:49,759 --> 00:44:46,890 little bit more Andrew you've been the 986 00:44:51,620 --> 00:44:49,769 tam I've been to tam life when it was on 987 00:44:54,259 --> 00:44:51,630 this closer to the strip is a northern 988 00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,269 in the strip tm5 yeah and it was at tam 989 00:44:58,579 --> 00:44:56,880 10 which was at southpoint south point 990 00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:58,589 so the thing about the ones that now 991 00:45:02,299 --> 00:45:00,119 I've never been at the ones that were 992 00:45:05,450 --> 00:45:02,309 closer to the stripper on the strip so I 993 00:45:07,309 --> 00:45:05,460 don't really I can't compare but at 994 00:45:09,979 --> 00:45:07,319 southpoint because we're all kind of 995 00:45:11,779 --> 00:45:09,989 stuck on this island that is south point 996 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:11,789 because it's like a thirty dollar cab 997 00:45:16,099 --> 00:45:13,410 ride to get to the strip and everything 998 00:45:17,420 --> 00:45:16,109 else you're kind of forced into that 999 00:45:18,769 --> 00:45:17,430 situation where you're hanging out with 1000 00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:18,779 these people I mean we basically take 1001 00:45:22,999 --> 00:45:21,359 over a bar yeah like the whole time were 1002 00:45:24,739 --> 00:45:23,009 there you can go there anytime and 1003 00:45:27,049 --> 00:45:24,749 there's skeptics from the conference 1004 00:45:29,420 --> 00:45:27,059 there did that happen on the earlier 1005 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:29,430 tams the earlier one you went to that 1006 00:45:33,950 --> 00:45:31,410 was on the strip word well in addition 1007 00:45:37,249 --> 00:45:33,960 to being closer to the strip it was in 1008 00:45:39,229 --> 00:45:37,259 January all right so it wasn't 1009 00:45:43,150 --> 00:45:39,239 oppressively hi some people thought it 1010 00:45:47,809 --> 00:45:43,160 was cold being from New England 55 1011 00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:47,819 degrees was fantastic positively balmy 1012 00:45:56,509 --> 00:45:51,839 what why is the pool closed okay I want 1013 00:45:58,309 --> 00:45:56,519 to go swimming no so we you know you 1014 00:46:03,109 --> 00:45:58,319 could go out walk the strip up and down 1015 00:46:05,209 --> 00:46:03,119 two mile walk it's very pleasant out 1016 00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:05,219 it's not the punch in the face that it 1017 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:07,920 is in July exactly so you can eat easily 1018 00:46:12,180 --> 00:46:09,370 get some 1019 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:12,190 good yeah pretty good you're sure they 1020 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:15,570 didn't forget about you no not working 1021 00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:18,250 yes please no we don't have bus 1022 00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:20,200 announcements or our airplanes flying 1023 00:46:26,490 --> 00:46:23,520 right over we manage your check-ins yeah 1024 00:46:29,250 --> 00:46:26,500 so Andrew were you got well this 1025 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:29,260 saturday i'm heading to Gloucester 1026 00:46:33,780 --> 00:46:31,450 Massachusetts and the cape and skeptics 1027 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:33,790 are hosting their skip to camp so 1028 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:35,530 there's a second one this is their 1029 00:46:40,380 --> 00:46:38,050 second yeah I went to the first I'll be 1030 00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:40,390 representing a I guess Granite State 1031 00:46:48,810 --> 00:46:45,480 skeptics doing my Marblehead UFO 1032 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:48,820 presentation that I gave last October at 1033 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:51,010 our skeptic camp yes and it was very 1034 00:46:57,090 --> 00:46:53,650 well received what better talks yes so 1035 00:46:59,940 --> 00:46:57,100 basically this is a talk about you know 1036 00:47:03,180 --> 00:46:59,950 what information you can find on the net 1037 00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:03,190 starting with a single picture and a 1038 00:47:11,130 --> 00:47:06,960 description given by the photographer 1039 00:47:14,510 --> 00:47:11,140 about a possibly unusual event my talk 1040 00:47:17,310 --> 00:47:14,520 is basically about what you can discover 1041 00:47:20,730 --> 00:47:17,320 based on one picture that was posted and 1042 00:47:23,010 --> 00:47:20,740 the premise was Hey look I was taking 1043 00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:23,020 this picture at sunrise and I noticed 1044 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:24,640 something in the series of pictures I 1045 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:26,770 took in the upper right hand corner and 1046 00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,850 it moved and the and the photographer 1047 00:47:38,580 --> 00:47:34,960 spliced some of those together cropped 1048 00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:38,590 it of course he had no no reference of 1049 00:47:43,650 --> 00:47:40,990 any time emotion and says yeah some of 1050 00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:43,660 these were time lapse and I hear as I 1051 00:47:48,780 --> 00:47:45,520 put a movie together and it was the 1052 00:47:51,890 --> 00:47:48,790 Marblehead UFO which made some local 1053 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:51,900 news and I looked at that I thought that 1054 00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,090 looks like an airplane and the talk is 1055 00:48:00,540 --> 00:47:57,280 about basically the evidence I gather 1056 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:00,550 online to support the fact that it was 1057 00:48:12,610 --> 00:48:07,960 so Dale just showed up post my post 1058 00:48:15,700 --> 00:48:12,620 rugby practice so and then the other 1059 00:48:17,700 --> 00:48:15,710 thing interest hustling to the zone last 1060 00:48:20,550 --> 00:48:17,710 week Richard was talking about 1061 00:48:24,190 --> 00:48:20,560 conspiracy road trip which is a 1062 00:48:26,980 --> 00:48:24,200 four-part BBC series or there's a 1063 00:48:28,660 --> 00:48:26,990 comedian who takes a group of people 1064 00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:28,670 that believe in some kind of conspiracy 1065 00:48:33,850 --> 00:48:31,430 theory and they go travel around and 1066 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:33,860 have them talk to experts and stuff it 1067 00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:36,050 was we talked about it earlier and I 1068 00:48:41,590 --> 00:48:38,240 think I refer you them all it was at the 1069 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:41,600 77 bombings in London religion izle 1070 00:48:47,830 --> 00:48:42,890 creationism that was one that had 1071 00:48:49,810 --> 00:48:47,840 trouble with UFOs and 911 and it was I 1072 00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:49,820 wouldn't consider creationism so much a 1073 00:48:56,380 --> 00:48:52,400 conspiracy theory is just no no no I had 1074 00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:56,390 no no it's a conspiracy for the deal 1075 00:49:02,500 --> 00:48:58,880 with the conspiracy for creationism is 1076 00:49:07,390 --> 00:49:02,510 that it's the scientists are a 1077 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:07,400 conspiracy ah spirits ok I see so that's 1078 00:49:11,890 --> 00:49:10,130 let's go to this but it was it was very 1079 00:49:14,230 --> 00:49:11,900 interesting except I'm not going to 1080 00:49:16,350 --> 00:49:14,240 spill the beans on the episode but with 1081 00:49:18,460 --> 00:49:16,360 the exception of one episode where 1082 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:18,470 everybody pretty much stuck with their 1083 00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:20,690 conspiracy at least one person change 1084 00:49:24,670 --> 00:49:22,640 their mind and every other episode the 1085 00:49:27,820 --> 00:49:24,680 dynamic among the people that are on the 1086 00:49:29,710 --> 00:49:27,830 bus that believe in the conspiracy gets 1087 00:49:31,930 --> 00:49:29,720 very entertaining and interesting to 1088 00:49:35,470 --> 00:49:31,940 watch at times because they kind of 1089 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:35,480 battle within their own conspiracy ideas 1090 00:49:41,860 --> 00:49:38,650 so that's a that's quite interesting my 1091 00:49:45,220 --> 00:49:41,870 my only experience I've had so far is 1092 00:49:49,060 --> 00:49:45,230 that one of my Facebook friends posted 1093 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:49,070 that microwaves are killing us microwave 1094 00:49:55,810 --> 00:49:53,210 ovens Oh directly or losing our phone 1095 00:49:58,090 --> 00:49:55,820 so she posts a picture of a dead plant 1096 00:50:00,370 --> 00:49:58,100 and a living plant and supposedly the 1097 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:00,380 dead plant had was microwave this 1098 00:50:06,010 --> 00:50:02,570 microwave water that was the bunk by a 1099 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:06,020 bunch of school kids oh I know it's old 1100 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:09,050 old news and she's posting it and and 1101 00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:13,130 the best part is she's like its sound so 1102 00:50:18,250 --> 00:50:14,960 logical I'm not going to use my 1103 00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:18,260 microwave oven anymore you should poster 1104 00:50:24,970 --> 00:50:21,520 the length of that I study posted her 1105 00:50:26,860 --> 00:50:24,980 just i posted snow because i knew they 1106 00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:26,870 had it as that this has gone around for 1107 00:50:32,890 --> 00:50:29,510 a little while and i responded with its 1108 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:32,900 fake only reason i pointing at this is 1109 00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:37,610 at the the nexus Debra and I cannot 1110 00:50:44,650 --> 00:50:42,140 pronounce her last name Barbra says yet 1111 00:50:46,870 --> 00:50:44,660 she was talking about a friend of hers 1112 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:46,880 that absolutely refused to use a 1113 00:50:53,140 --> 00:50:48,890 microwave at all especially because the 1114 00:50:57,940 --> 00:50:53,150 mesh in the in the screen would let the 1115 00:50:59,860 --> 00:50:57,950 microwaves out it hurt it will in den 1116 00:51:02,740 --> 00:50:59,870 Deborah explain you know how microwaves 1117 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:02,750 works and really stupid it just feels 1118 00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:05,930 like it's just ignorance one of my 1119 00:51:09,490 --> 00:51:07,670 former students had said that her mother 1120 00:51:10,750 --> 00:51:09,500 refuses to let her stand in front the 1121 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:10,760 microwave and wait for her popcorn 1122 00:51:14,530 --> 00:51:13,370 because the radiation and it's going to 1123 00:51:16,690 --> 00:51:14,540 give her cancer and that's because 1124 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:16,700 that's how her mother got cancer but 1125 00:51:19,930 --> 00:51:17,810 didn't she read the thing about 1126 00:51:24,580 --> 00:51:19,940 microwave popcorn giving some guy lung 1127 00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,590 cancer no that's not before this did you 1128 00:51:28,990 --> 00:51:26,720 hear doesn't know about that let me 1129 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:29,000 finish the story and actually I didn't 1130 00:51:32,950 --> 00:51:30,410 have to say anything because the kid 1131 00:51:35,370 --> 00:51:32,960 corrected the mother she's like no this 1132 00:51:38,590 --> 00:51:35,380 is not how this work she's like the mesh 1133 00:51:41,020 --> 00:51:38,600 protects us and it's shielded and and 1134 00:51:42,850 --> 00:51:41,030 the mothers were still refused to let 1135 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:42,860 her but at least the kid was like no 1136 00:51:48,940 --> 00:51:44,810 this is not how it works she's like 8th 1137 00:51:51,670 --> 00:51:48,950 and 9th grade science this is how so I 1138 00:51:55,450 --> 00:51:51,680 was like okay I'm like I'm so proud of 1139 00:51:56,500 --> 00:51:55,460 you so tell us about the microwave 1140 00:52:02,020 --> 00:51:56,510 popcorn 1141 00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:02,030 lung cancer or was it something else 1142 00:52:06,250 --> 00:52:04,310 some sort of cancer from breathing in 1143 00:52:08,170 --> 00:52:06,260 enemy so what it was journalist he was 1144 00:52:10,270 --> 00:52:08,180 getting microwave popcorn every day at 1145 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:10,280 work on his break and he would put the 1146 00:52:15,070 --> 00:52:12,770 bag of popcorn and microwave would come 1147 00:52:18,550 --> 00:52:15,080 out he hold it right up to his face and 1148 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:18,560 inhale deeply as he opened it and he did 1149 00:52:23,230 --> 00:52:21,290 this for like 11 years or something and 1150 00:52:25,390 --> 00:52:23,240 then he got something so it's not really 1151 00:52:28,270 --> 00:52:25,400 surprising that he had something happy 1152 00:52:30,100 --> 00:52:28,280 with wellness even so there you still 1153 00:52:32,770 --> 00:52:30,110 can't show that there's a causation 1154 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:32,780 there specifically over I'm 11 1155 00:52:38,310 --> 00:52:35,690 mooresville there is a chemical father 1156 00:52:41,410 --> 00:52:38,320 microwave is using one of the company's 1157 00:52:44,380 --> 00:52:41,420 brands that still use that chemical even 1158 00:52:46,330 --> 00:52:44,390 though most of the popcorn hangs away 1159 00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,340 from okay well that doesn't suck it was 1160 00:52:51,730 --> 00:52:48,800 a lag okay that's some crucial details 1161 00:52:53,860 --> 00:52:51,740 that you know right that was left was a 1162 00:52:55,900 --> 00:52:53,870 pool but it's hard to change an 1163 00:52:58,960 --> 00:52:55,910 accenture under chemical but I want to 1164 00:53:00,760 --> 00:52:58,970 say Oh lake sounds well here or whatever 1165 00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:00,770 it is cuz I mean you know over an 1166 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:03,440 11-year period people can do a do a lot 1167 00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:05,930 of things that could Miami and there was 1168 00:53:11,650 --> 00:53:07,520 multiple times a day wasn't just lunch 1169 00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:11,660 break Oh was it yeah using that much 1170 00:53:16,450 --> 00:53:14,450 butter microwave popcorn he I think it 1171 00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:16,460 was like three times a day every day Wow 1172 00:53:21,670 --> 00:53:19,910 like yeah that's all over 11 years and 1173 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:21,680 he was doing it as it came out it was 1174 00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:24,050 like a fresh bag that he would literally 1175 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:27,110 go for it open it up and stick his face 1176 00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:29,090 him that was the thing that they said 1177 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:31,190 was the worst part about it yeah he was 1178 00:53:38,050 --> 00:53:35,450 huffing popcorn there's one thing 1179 00:53:40,270 --> 00:53:38,060 popcorn butter flavor he was huffing 1180 00:53:42,580 --> 00:53:40,280 microwave butter there could be a 1181 00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,590 soldier stands aerosolized or whatever 1182 00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:44,720 it's called whatever your wording is now 1183 00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:46,910 Harris allies particularly got that 1184 00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:47,880 right 1185 00:53:55,130 --> 00:53:52,410 we know so anyway on Dale pronouncing 1186 00:53:58,370 --> 00:53:55,140 something right I guess we'll put it in 1187 00:54:27,910 --> 00:53:58,380 all this is to put it into this our 1188 00:54:32,090 --> 00:54:30,170 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1189 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:32,100 zone all that was a nice nah my head 1190 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:35,970 downstairs well what what it's almost 1191 00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:38,490 like this episode deserves its own jet 1192 00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:41,600 lag I think visiting so many countries 1193 00:54:46,970 --> 00:54:45,000 coming up very soon I really mean it 1194 00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:46,980 this time I know I know I know I'm 1195 00:54:54,380 --> 00:54:49,140 getting mail and emails telling me what 1196 00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:54,390 the hell's going on solar flare I'm sure 1197 00:54:58,520 --> 00:54:56,160 it's very sir I must have got lost 1198 00:55:01,370 --> 00:54:58,530 somewhere maybe it's bouncing around the 1199 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:01,380 planet on the internet and I'm Alma it's 1200 00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:03,810 almost here solar flare is almost here 1201 00:55:08,270 --> 00:55:05,910 and it will appear by surprise one day 1202 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:08,280 you'll be downloading you'll be on the 1203 00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:11,130 internet and suddenly it'll just be 1204 00:55:16,310 --> 00:55:14,070 there coming up in future episodes of 1205 00:55:17,930 --> 00:55:16,320 the skeptics own more from here QED in 1206 00:55:20,060 --> 00:55:17,940 Manchester I'm going to an interview as 1207 00:55:22,670 --> 00:55:20,070 many people as I can and a report coming 1208 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:22,680 up about the science film festival i'm 1209 00:55:28,220 --> 00:55:25,770 visiting just in a few days folks a fo 1210 00:55:30,530 --> 00:55:28,230 dot c ZD you've heard me talk about it 1211 00:55:33,050 --> 00:55:30,540 before all very exciting i'm going to be 1212 00:55:34,850 --> 00:55:33,060 introducing videos by richard dawkins 1213 00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:34,860 and brian dunning and actually I bumped 1214 00:55:38,450 --> 00:55:36,930 into Richard Dawkins just just last 1215 00:55:40,910 --> 00:55:38,460 night and had a quick chat to him and 1216 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:40,920 he's a very pleased that his video 1217 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:44,130 enemies of reason will be screamed at 1218 00:55:49,550 --> 00:55:47,970 this film festival a fo dot sees it and 1219 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:49,560 if you're in the Czech Republic I hope 1220 00:55:54,890 --> 00:55:53,130 you can come by and say hello well I'm 1221 00:55:57,260 --> 00:55:54,900 quite worn out i think i might retire 1222 00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:57,270 early i'll go down to the party tough 1223 00:56:01,430 --> 00:56:00,000 choice folks a tough choice but until 1224 00:56:07,830 --> 00:56:01,440 next week this is Richard Saunders 1225 00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:10,050 you've been listening to the skeptic 1226 00:56:18,810 --> 00:56:15,040 zone visit our website at www skeptics